Geolibertarian Tax Policy

Submitted by LoganFerree on Mon, 2005-08-15 18:25.

Many advocates of tax reform support a 'Fair Tax' that would put into place a federal sales tax to replace the current combination of income, payroll, corporate, capital gains, and other taxes. Republican Congressman John Linder is pushing one with a rate of 23% but with a method of subsidy checks that would function similarly to a Citizen's Dividend, but with a major difference.

The major difference, as I see it, is that the subsidy check would be monthly and based on what the government says is the amount a typical family of your income and size would spend on necessities. So the new system would put into place a very regressive system of taxation with it being up to the government handing out subsidy checks to level the playing field. How much do you trust the government?

Why not look for something better? Tax reform is an issue that Democrats shouldn't be afraid of championing as their own. Right now the 'Fair Tax' camp has acted like it's the only possible tax reform out there. Shouldn't we tell them that they are wrong and offer our own proposals?

Via Kevin Carson I was pointed to a piece by Jeff Darcy concerning Geolibertarian tax policy at Canned Platypus. Geolibertarians as a welcome group within the Freedom Democrats big tent; I'd call myself one! Jeff offers up a true geolibertarian primer by starting with a discussion of the Lockean proviso:

Though the earth and all inferior creatures be common to all men, yet every man has a “property” in his own “person.” This nobody has any right to but himself. The “labour” of his body and the “work” of his hands, we may say, are properly his. Whatsoever, then, he removes out of the state that Nature hath provided and left it in, he hath mixed his labour with it, and joined to it something that is his own, and thereby makes it his property. It being by him removed from the common state Nature placed it in, it hath by this labour something annexed to it that excludes the common right of other men. For this “labour” being the unquestionable property of the labourer, no man but he can have a right to what that is once joined to, at least where there is enough, and as good left in common for others.

I obviously own my own life and my own body, my own labor. The fruits of my labor are also mine. This is the philosophical foundation for property rights. But by what claim do I have to the natural world? Locke says that by mixing it with my labor, I've made it my own property. But he realizes that this is a takings from the common and is justified only if there still 'is enough, and as good left in common for others.' There's a big difference between taking a slice of pizza at a party when there are remaining slices and taking the very last slice of pizza. Jeff states the situation today, with my emphasis added:

The problem, of course, is that there is not an infinite supply of land, and those who were left out of the royal land-grant process end up permanently screwed out of their just share of the wealth which derives from land ownership. Since nobody can live without some access to land, if all the land is already owned then any newcomers’ very survival is contingent on paying whatever rent the current owners choose to charge. This potential for extortion may be exercised to a greater or lesser degree, but is never absent and has played an important (some would say primary) role in creating most of the great historical fortunes. Even those who supposedly built their fortunes some other way are/were dependent and often beholden to previous owners of land-based wealth who invested in their enterprises. The Georgists and geolibertarians, recognizing this for a fact, say that the solution is to charge for the privilege of owning land. Furthermore, they claim, the revenue from such land rents or land value taxes would be sufficient to remove the need for other forms of taxation. Thus, taxes on income earned via labor can be replaced with much more justifiable tax on possession of a static asset to which the right of ownership (especially free and in perpetuity) is morally questionable.

There is also the idea of taxing bads, not goods. You may be familiar with cigarette taxes. Well simply extend that idea and you have another justification for a tax policy that focuses on the use of natural resources.

Thus, extraction of resources - ore, trees, water, oil - from the land should be taxed, as should profligate use of those things and their derivatives (e.g. energy). This theory has been around for a while, mostly (for obvious reasons) coming from ecologists, but a couple of things I’ve read recently have brought it back to my attention. One is Jared Diamond’s Collapse, which describes in excruciating detail how mismanagement of finite resources has often led to the complete collapse of societies and civilizations . . . The lesson that Diamond and the others draw from this is that forestalling a resource-triggered collapse requires some sort of control over the depletion and degradation of natural resources. That control can be authoritarian, market-based, or (most often) some sort of hybrid, but economies and societies that don’t have any kind of control are in an unsustainable state.

And there we have it. You don't have to be a geolibertarian or a georgist to agree with this, I think it can appeal to people of all political backgrounds. We can still be free to disagree about the level of government taxation, what we want the money spent on, and the like. I would like a limited government with low levels of taxation. There is also room for debate on how the tax burden is split among our levels of government. The federal government takes up around two thirds of the tax burden in the USA, with state and local governments making up the remaining third. In addition to lowering of taxes, I'd like to see this shift toward state and local governments making up the bulk of taxes.

Smells like the Qin dynasty to me

#231 On Tue, 2005 08 16 18:56 Robot.Economist said,

Geolibertarians paint a warm and fuzzy image of relying on land taxes and while it is an interesting idea that would promote more efficient land use (especially in the US), I would like to point out that the Chinese empire tried this a number of times to little avail. The first problem is that changes in technology can cause drastic changes in land value, which would continuously disrupt tax revenues and be very hard to predict. The second is moving the tax burden from income to property merely shifts the ambiguous moral conflict at the heart of taxation instead of assuaging. It was these two issues that complicated the land taxation system (called the well-field system) and made them fiscally and socially untenable in the long term.

I would also submit that using a so-called "static" source of revenue would have positive consequences in the federal government's fiscal behavior (hopefully shaving off deficit spending), it is not designed to account for the needs of the people - my backyard may be a beneficiary of national defense spending, but I need that good more than it does.

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Land Value Tax

#235 On Wed, 2005 08 17 10:26 LoganFerree said,

I'm not sure if the Qin Dynasty was actually basing its taxation on the value of the land as opposed to just a lump sum based on the amount of land or something else. I have read much about the idea of a LVT, Land Value Tax, and I've never seen any discussion of the Chinese system you speak of. That makes me suspect that it wasn't the same as the proposed LVT, which as been adopted in areas ranging from the UK to Pennsylvania to Australia. If you think about a local government most of the services they provide (road, utilities, schools, law & order) will increase the value of your property, so it makes sense (in my opinion) to have this be the main source of revenue for the local government. Geolibertarian ideas of taxation and federalism do tend to create more complicated situations. One idea is to return to the system of each state paying an amount of taxation based on its population and for them to decide how best to produce this amount.

Robot.Economist misses this essential points...

#241 On Thu, 2005 08 18 13:39 BillG said,

Robot.Economist wrote:
"moving the tax burden from income to property merely shifts the ambiguous moral conflict at the heart of taxation instead of assuaging."

the only moral conflict surrounding LVT is whether or not one truly supports property right to the fruits of one's labor as the natural extention of the right of self-ownership.

there is no "conflict" about whether or not to have a land "tax" as the economic rent naturally attaches to all locations beyond Locke's Proviso (enough as as good left for others) - it still attaches even in an anarchistic society.

the only question that defines morality then is WHO receives it and WHO pays it?

a. the excluder - who contributes no labor to creating the value?

or

b. the excluded - who has a legal and material obligation foisted upon his wages by the private enclosure enforced by the state?

remember in a pure 100% rent SHARING scheme via a citizens dividend there would be purchase price to land.

The LVT vs. production tax

#245 On Sun, 2005 08 21 20:54 Robot.Economist said,

Ok, I admit my misgivings are relatively minor (I just don't trust rent seeking behavior on a natural resource - the "Dutch Disease" isn't pretty), but I just don't see how the LVT is so different from production tax. Isn't the "land value" that is taxed by the LVT derived by how much is (or can be) produced by the individuals on the land? So instead of taxing the individual, the group is being taxed - but I fail to see how this frees a man's production unto himself in a pesudo-Marxian sense. We still use use the value of his work to determine how tax is derived and he is inevitably the one who pays the tax, so what has really been freed here?

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LVT

#246 On Mon, 2005 08 22 09:02 LoganFerree said,

I'll try to give you a few examples of where a tax like the LVT is being put into place. Here in Virginia property taxes are based on both the improvements to the property and the estimated value of the land. The former is easy to understand, the latter is mostly based on location and the like. The lump sum is taxed together. Some cities, like Roanoke and Fairfax, have started to switch the way the property tax is calculated. It's split in two, one value based on the value of the improvements (homes and buildings) and the other is based on the estimated value of the land. They are lowering taxes on the improvements, while either keeping same or increasing (to be revenue neutral) the taxes on the value of the land.

Ideally under a LVT the entire value of the improvements to the land are tax free. This means that people that improve old run down areas don't suddenly face higher taxes simply because they decided to fix it up. IT encourages people to try to restore the old areas of town instead of simply buying up land and creating sprawl. By increasing the taxes on the value of the land it discourages land speculation, which also creates problems with sprawl. People in quickly growing areas will hold onto land as long as possible before selling it off to the highest bidder, often encouraging the sprawl to first grow around them or 'leapfrog' out.

Overall I think the best case for the LVT is that it's the least bad tax. Others here can try to flesh out the idea in more detail.

LVT problems

#247 On Mon, 2005 08 22 16:32 Mike Renzulli (not verified) said,

While I am sure the LVT is the least harmful tax for people to pay and, most suredly the lowest, I would like to pose some problems about this tax that came up after parusing the Library of Liberty's webpage that has a biography of Henry George that details his proposal too.
The article raises the questions about the LVT as follows:

"[Henry] George was right that other taxes may have stronger disincentives. But economists now recognize that the single land tax is not innocent, either. Site values are created, not intrinsic. Why else would land in Tokyo be worth so much more than land in Mississippi? Why was land in Tokyo worth so much less years ago? A tax on the value of a site is really a tax on productive potential, which is a result of improvements to land in the area. Henry George's proposed tax on one piece of land, is, in effect, based on the improvements to the neighboring land.

And what if you are your "neighbor"? What if you buy a large expanse of land and raise the value of one portion of it by improving the surrounding land. Then you are taxed based on your improvements. This is not far-fetched. It is precisely what the Disney Corporation did in Florida. Disney bought up large amounts of land around the area where it planned to build Disneyworld, and then made this surrounding land more valuable by building Disneyworld. Had George's single tax on land been in existence, Disney might never have made the investment. So, contrary to George's reasoning, even a tax on unimproved land reduces incentives.

George's argument also assumes that in setting taxes, the government can separate the raw value of land from the value of its improvements—a difficult, if not impossible, task, especially for a politically motivated government. Can the government tax the "unimproved rental value" of the land under an office complex in Los Angeles without creating any disincentive for the owner to increase its improved value?"

Anyone have any responses to this?

LVT Replies

#253 On Mon, 2005 08 22 23:00 LoganFerree said,

Mike, I'll do my best to address some of the points.

>Why else would land in Tokyo be worth so much more than land in Mississippi? Why was land in Tokyo worth so much less years ago?<

It was mentioned on the progressive libertarian list already that this has to do partially with demand. More people want to live and do business in Tokyo than in Mississippi. A lot of this is due to the shortage of land in Japan, as land is something that is finite in supply and cannot be produced.

>What if you buy a large expanse of land and raise the value of one portion of it by improving the surrounding land. Then you are taxed based on your improvements.<

But why should this not be so? In your Disney scenario, why would Disney have bought up all that land around Disneyworld? I am going to guess that they most likely knew that once they built Disneyworld, the land around Disneyworld would suddenly be in greater demand and be worth more. They were engaging in land speculation, buying up land while it was cheap and going to sell it off later when it was worth more. I don't think that the LVT would discourage them at all from making the initial investment. Rather the LVT functions to discourage people from holding onto unimproved land when there's a high market demand for it. Obviously if you're filthy rich you can continue to pay the high LVT for land that you're doing nothing with. But that doesn't mean that the LVT doesn't at least tend to encourage the use of the most productive land.

LVT problems?

#248 On Mon, 2005 08 22 17:56 brooks (not verified) said,

On Mike's comments, on the second point not having 'a politically motivated' gov't seperating land from improvements is a problem that could afflict any property tax. It's more an issue of corruption or incompetence then a feature particularly afflicting LVT.

On the first point it is possible that Disney would take a tax increase for improving the land. But as their improvement taxes and income taxes would be low to nonexistant they would still see an advantage from this tax structure. Plus it is more the rare occasion where a landowner would buy and convert such a large percentage of a community into useful land, and keep the ownership for themselves. On the point of 'creating any disincentive to improvement' this isn't utopia, and as the first point of your comment has already stated it is the least harmful and lowest to pay. So the question should not be what's wrong but when and how. (Unless you see a fatal flaw that is a deal breaker.)

RE: LVT 'Disney World' Problem

#255 On Mon, 2005 08 22 23:32 JeffJ (not verified) said,

One answer to the 'Dysney World' problem was discussed in the "Libertarian Party at Sea on Land" book by Harold Kyriazi. He proposes that private individuals, organizations or corporations who create positive spatial externalities could be compensated for their contribution to the community. An LVT rebate to private entities who bring positive capital flow into a community could be attracted by that community by rebates on the LVT. He uses the analogy of a shopping mall, where certain businesses are given a break on rent because they bring foot traffic to the mall, and therefore create positive spatial externalities. The 'Disney World' problem was one of my first stumbling blocks with LVT and Kyriazi discusses it at length. I found his book to be a very good primer and quick read on LVT.

Re: LVT Problems

#258 On Wed, 2005 08 24 11:20 Mike Renzulli (not verified) said,

I was not aware the LVT was discussed at the book JeffJ mentioned and will look it up. I have ordered "Progress and Poverty" and ma looking forward to reading it. I appreciate the responses as I am new to this subject. As Logan points out, I posted a similar message to the Progressive Libertarians e-mail list and was mostly pleased with the responses I got.

Re: LVT Problems

#259 On Wed, 2005 08 24 11:34 Mike Renzulli (not verified) said,

Additionally, I felt a good way to familiarize others about Georgist tax policy was discuss it at this site. I also am curious as to how much lower the LVT is compared to ther taxes (like income and tariff taxes). Does anyone know what the rate of an LVT would be compared to ther taxes on the books? I know it would be relatively low and harder to avoid. But how much lower would an LVT be?

i asked this question once,

#263 On Wed, 2005 08 24 14:19 colorless green... said,

i asked this question once, with the example of my house being worth $300k, a 1.5% property tax, and an improvement/land value breakdown of $240k/$60k.

currently, my tax would be $4500 annually. i was told that under a pure lvt, it would be $900. though i think most lvt systems are split, with a higher rate on the land than the improvements, so it may be more like 2.5% of $60k ($1500) + .5% of $240k ($1200) which is a total of $1700. anyway, this is just speculation. i think hardcore, single-tax lvt proponents argue for something more like 10% tax on land value only.

LVT Rate

#265 On Wed, 2005 08 24 14:50 LoganFerree said,

I think the answer is that it depends, but there are mainly two main scenarios.

1- The LVT is used primarily to support the government. Ideally the LVT is collected locally and a portion is given to the states, and a portion of that is then given to the national government. And we could even imagine a level beyond that. But the original tax collection is conducted locally. With a limited government, the LVT would be as high as necessary, and ideally as low as possible.

2- 100% of the LVT is collected. It is used to support a Citizen's Dividend which is given to all citizens in a geographical area. It's not always clear at what level of government this is conducted, most likely at a local bio-regional level. The Citizen's Dividend replaces all social services that the government typically provides. You either come out ahead, most likely if you're a small home owner or a renter. Big wealthy individuals with large valuable estates (Trump?) come out paying more than they receive. If there is any government, it's financed primarily through user fees and/or a simple flat per head amount. Or a portion of the Citizen's Dividend is deducted to pay for government services.

I tend to prefer the second as an ultimate goal, but the second as a more transitional period.

Re: LVT Problems

#277 On Thu, 2005 08 25 01:14 Mike Renzulli (not verified) said,

Okay, assuming a pure LVT is put in place, my concern is if it can be manipulated. As I said on the Progressive Libertarian list, presently the school districts in my state keep going to the taxpayers for increases in property taxes to offset the tax breaks politicians give companies to lure them into their cities. Can the LVT be manipulated like the present system can? If not, why not or how?

All Taxes Can Be Manipulated

#278 On Thu, 2005 08 25 08:14 LoganFerree said,

My view is that all taxes can be manipulated.

Re: All Taxes Can Be Manipulated

#280 On Thu, 2005 08 25 09:47 Mike Renzulli (not verified) said,

I am sure that is the case. But is there anything about a Land Value Tax that would make it less likely that it would be used to give exemptions to certain groups or companies the politicians want? That, in my view, would be a libertarian and a liberal's objection to it. If an LVT is the best alternative to the other forms of taxation used (which I have no doubt that it is) then there have to be adequate examples or responses to people's concern about this and the possibility of increases in the tax rates if the tax system is ever enacted.

exemptions

#295 On Sun, 2005 08 28 11:22 BillG said,

Mike-

as Dan said on progressive-libertarian list - a citizens dividend for all would be a POWERFUL disincentive for manipulation.

bg

Citizen's Dividend?

#299 On Sun, 2005 08 28 15:56 Robot.Economist said,

First of all, since when has the redistribution of wealth been at all libertarian?

Sure, the LVT does have advantages that libertarians would favor, such as a relatively immutable tax baseline that would discourage excessive growth, but I think your assumption about the fairness of a citizen's dividend is falsely formed. Since the Industrial Revolution, capital has replaced land as the primary impetus for growth, so even if your goal was wealth redistribution, land wouldn't be an effective method. By eliminating the value of the capital on the real estate, wouldn't an LVT be encouraging speculative behavior by decreasing the risk associated with land renewal?

I hope we're not talking past each other here, but I still have misgivings about an LVT.

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Re: Redistribution of Wealth

#304 On Sun, 2005 08 28 18:04 LoganFerree said,

I understand that the idea of redistribution seems very anti-libertarian and statist. I'll see if I can't address some of your concerns.

On the matter of redistribution I'm sure you're familiar with some classical liberals and libertarians that supported the idea of some basic fundamental income level for all citizen's, such as Milton Friedman's idea of a Negative Income Tax. There has been a tendency in this group to favor either a lump sum or a tax credit that allowed people to 'shop around' for basic services and keep any savings that they might come up with, as opposed to the more classically socialist system of providing the service directly through public housing and the like.

The recent 'Fair Tax' idea comes with the idea of a tax rebate that would be based on what a typical family of that size and income would be spending on fundamental goods and services. Think of the Citizen's Dividend as the geolibertarian approach.

You point out that capital has replaced land as the primary source of growth and that if the goal was wealth redistribution, why use land instead of capital? I think this should indicate to you that the goal simply isn't wealth redistribution, as a traditional socialist welfare state would most likely be able to redistribute more 'efficiently' than a LVT with a Citizen's Dividend.

I'm not sure about your last question. By eliminating the tax on capital for real estate, the LVT would encourage land renewal. You could come into a run down area of town, purchase some property, and fix it up, and not be faced with higher taxes because you've improved the quality of the building. I guess what you're saying is that by making land renewal less risky, you may see more land renewal attempts that are based on ideas that aren't as likely to succeed? As it is not, taxes encourage people to invest in land renewal only if they are relatively certain that the improvement will not just cover their investment, but potentially higher taxes from increased assessment? This could be seen as a negative attribute of the LVT, but I tend to like the idea that it encourages people to be inventive in land renewal.

Back to the Tokyo example

#305 On Sun, 2005 08 28 18:43 Robot.Economist said,

I guess my last point was made as kind of an aside, but I will expand on it further using the Tokyo example, since I wasn't very clear. Japan and its highly urbanized prefectures specifically have a property tax system similar to that of an LVT - basically, taxation determined on the land value only. The problem is that during the economic boom of the 1980s, developers made very risky purchases of land in the city with the goal of urban renewal in potentially "hot" territory. When the bubble burst, the same risky renewal projects fell into the red as consumption and investment slowed down in the 1990s.

The point I was trying to illustrate is that an LVT can place the tax rate on a renewal project at an artificially low or distorted level relative to the size of the total capital investment. So instead of getting some well-planned economic or residental zoning, you get the very thin, but tall apartment buildings and terrible urban sprawl of most of Japan's cities. There has to be an appropriate level of taxation on both land and capital that encourages non-speculative real estate growth.

On second thought, my example is too narrow to be a serious challenge to the LVT., so nevermind.

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CD and Tokyo..

#309 On Sun, 2005 08 28 22:12 BillG said,

Robo wrote:

"since when has the redistribution of wealth been at all libertarian?"

right, the current system of land rent monopoly enforced by the state IS redistribution of wealth from the community that creates it to the landowner who contributes NO labor towards it.

why have no choice in the matter as to whether to "have" economic rent (as represented by the LVT) or not as it naturally attaches to all locations under scarcity conditions...

the only choice we have is "who is going to retain it?"

if the landowner does then the property rights to the fruits of the excluded's labor are sacrificed.

if the individual community members do in the form of a citizens dividend then we ahve a system where the greatest number of people have the greatest amount of EQUAL freedom.

Robo wrote:

"Japan and its highly urbanized prefectures specifically have a property tax system similar to that of an LVT - basically, taxation determined on the land value only. "

this is not true although it is true for Hong Kong...where did you get this information from?