Great Weekend Reading: Clowns to the Left of Me, Jokers to the Right

Submitted by John on Sat, 2008-04-19 18:40.

That is the title of this latest entry at The Art of the Possible, a libertarian/liberal fusionist website for deep discussion on the sometimes colliding, sometimes overlapping world views.

In this latest entry, Jim Henley of Unqualified Offerings fame, submits a good piece about his political journey, his views, his views of libertarianism as it relates to liberalism as well as to politics in general. Overall, I'd say he's spot on and very realistic.

The journey starts in the aftermath of 9/11:

Back then I thought of myself as a man of “the Right,” though not a “conservative,” and pitched my arguments against promiscuous war, untrammelled security prerogatives and nationalism in “right-wing” terms, trying to explain how militarism, hegemony and torture contravene libertarian and conservative principles of limited government, humility and prudence.

That didn’t go so well.

Over time I came to think of myself as a man of “the Left” broadly considered. You could say this was due to events, not just Iraq and Gitmo but Terri Schiavo and gay marriage and all the right-wing “nanny-statism” of Bush-era Republicanism making clear that libertarianism and “small-government conservatism” have even less purchase on the “Right” than I thought they did years ago, when I never thought they had much to start.

He continues by stating the obvious:

Liberals and libertarians are not equal in any measure.

In terms of numbers, institutional infrastructure, organizational capacity and political energy, “libertarianism” hardly rises to the level of junior partner in any fusionism.

Very true...sadly enough. I personally would never pretend otherwise. And, as Henley points out, this is true regardless of how you define libertarianism....whether narrowly as strict anarcho-capitalist types like the Lew Rockwell Rothbardian group, or broadly (like me) as the more big tent and more loosely joined Cato/Reason types (glossed over for expediency as "economically conservative and socially liberal". The former is useless to liberalism while provoking even more useless fighting and the latter being unified, still too small at about 10% of the electorate and ultimately mutually inconvenient to either side due to the practicality, as Matthew Yglesias has pointed out, for the Dem leadership of catering to a small group that is at odds with about half of their agenda and risks angering and alienating its own base to win them over...something they obviously cannot do. Same on the GOP side.

the Democratic Party is becoming more populist economically, not less. Meanwhile the Republican Party is becoming more militarist and moralistic.

IOW, a double dead end for the Status Quo factions with little to gain and a lot to lose by searching out this small swing vote.

And as seen from the libertarian side, it's even less pleasant:

A “libertarian” who works on behalf of the Republican Party, formally or informally, will be helping to involve the country in longer and newer wars, and will be enabling retrograde policies toward pregnant women, gay people, recreational-drug consumers and people implicated, rightly or wrongly, in “terrorism” broadly defined. The “libertarian” who takes up the cause of upper-case Democrats will be working toward higher marginal tax rates, nationalized health care and broader regulation of finance and industry. There is no use pretending otherwise.

Tell me about it, Jimmy. *Sigh*

So, Henley draws his grand conclusion and I can't say I disagree. So what use are libertarians, politically, to liberals?...or conservatives for that matter? After all, we libertarians are simply not going to get exactly what we want any time soon and we aren't going to become liberals or conservatives any time sooner.

Says Henley rather insightfully: (emphasis mine)

I think libertarians are, rather, the court jesters of politics. I mean that in a good way. We whisper to Caesar that that he is mortal. We caper about, turning ourselves blue if necessary, reminding everyone that government power is inescapably violent and inescapably self-interested. You’re probably not going to care, but we’re going to make you actively decide not to care. And sometimes, maybe you’ll care after all. As a class, we can be stupendously silly people, believing and saying the most absurd things. But our rulers are silly people too, in different and more malignant ways. And as fools, we have the freedom to say so.

IOW, I guess the use will remain what it has always been: a small group of disloyal and non-partisan people whose words and views put subtle tugs and shoves on the mainstream consciousness and whose small successes materialize through the two party system when one side is bad enough to inspire the other to fight a libertarian-backed battle or two every once and a while. We saw in the 60s counter-culture and antiwar protests, in the late 70s and early 80s with some of Reagan's ideas, again in the mid 90s with the battle over Hillary-care and the '94 revolution and we see it again now against the Bush era. Where it will sway next is up to the stupidity of our two parties when one chooses to push the limits of stupidity just a bit too far and the libertarians will be there to help push back...at least for the moment.

Thanks abunch.

#6291 On Sun, 2008 04 20 00:39 Paige_Michael-S... said,

I've been, well, incredibly depressed ever since the aftermath of the Presidential campaign failed to meet my hopes after Ron Paul had put libertarianism in a spotlight it had never before enjoyed. Now I'm even more incredibly depressed after you confronted me with the reality that us libertarians, although right about every single thing, will always be odd man out. I look at my college campus, and the YDs have all the numbers with their incredibly stupid economic ideas, and they are supporting a candidate (Obama) who is, quite frankly, horrendous on civil liberties issues and can be persuaded to take positions in favor of puppet-masters because he is an incredibly ambitious politician. I work myself to the bone to build the libertarian ranks, but no matter the efforts of myself and those like me around the state, it will never be successful: those arrogant, totalitarian socialist YDs who make my blood boil every time I talk to them and see them on campus will rule us and drive us libertarians and everyone else into oblivion with their stupid ideas.

Thanks abunch for confronting me with reality. It's really doing wonders for my mental state right now.

Obama's not a socialist

#6292 On Sun, 2008 04 20 02:26 ka1igu1a said,

His economic team is heavily influenced by the post-Friedman Chicago School which is pushing the concept of "libertarian paternalism." Depending on who gets to set up the constraints/design of the "choice architecture," it certainly could be superior to the tax/subsidize, prohibit/mandate framework we more or less have now. But it could be a complete nightmare if,say, someone like Huckabee and the Family Research Council were in charge of designing the architecture.

And I would call Obama's record on civil liberties "spotty," not horrendous.

And the failure of the paul campaign to meet expectations is in many respects the fault of the paul campaign itself. Paul never intended to mount a serious campaign, even after he had raised all that money. He basically just quit. Now he is selling his "revolutionary manifesto" on Amazon. Why isn't he offering it as a free download in PDF format? The r3volution only takes Visa, Mastercard, or AMEX, I suppose...

Libertarian paternalism...

#6303 On Mon, 2008 04 21 18:35 Paige_Michael-S... said,

Is an oxymoron.

Sorry, Mike

#6295 On Sun, 2008 04 20 12:43 John said,

it is what it is. I don't like it either.

Stupid ideas, as you call them, are very seductive because they don't require a deeper understanding of what is in play. Far too easy to be lured in by them.

Not an entirely accurate assessment IMHO

#6293 On Sun, 2008 04 20 06:39 ka1igu1a said,

I still maintain that if we got rid of plurality voting and the electoral college, then four or five roughly equal political parties would emerge, which would include a competitive libertarian party. Now granted, the LP platform could not be radically minarchist, but it would still more or less be a party that emphasized both personal and economic liberty.

Yes, as it stands now, libertarians are a minority faction in both major parties and comprise a very tiny party for itself. And the only real political power libertarians have is to swing close elections. However (and this was the original raison d’être of Freedom Democrats), this power was primarily manifested in the mountain west, northwest, and southwest. If the democratic Party made headway with the libertarian vote out west, it could lock-down an electoral majority. Therefore, libertarians, politically, are more than "court jesters." Western libertarians, particularly, are a constituency that actually has to be courted for their vote. In 2006, they were the difference in whether the Senate switched Democratic or stayed Republican.

Henley is correct that any libertarian fusionism with Repubs or Dems has never amounted to anything more than a "junior partnership," but that observation has always been more or less self-evident. Nothing new there.

However, Henley's assertion that the Dem Party is becoming more populist ignores the fact the Repub party is becoming more populist too. So too, even the LP party(the LP is no longer a party that can be counted on for advocating open border immigration). However, the populist strain is still not dominant in the Dem party, otherwise John Edwards would be the nominee. Any pandering rhetoric aside, you can't convince me that either Clinton or Obama are raging populists. Both, in fact, keep getting burned by the actions of their campaigns behind the scenes that belies whatever populist rhetoric they spew out on the campaign trail.

From a purely political perspective, I think there is a significant political re-alignment unfolding, I'm just not sure how it will ultimately play out. The GOP obviously experienced it with the fractioning between supply-siders,cultural and economic populists, neoconservatives, and libertarians when they had the majority. The Dem party is heading toward their own fracturing between the progressive managerial class, blue collar populists, left-wing civil liberty activists, the creative class, and group identity classes. With an Obama or Clinton presidency along with a democratic congressional majority, you will still likely see a hawkish foreign policy, only partial withdrawal for Iraq, new trade deals, only a partial nod to civil liberties, and certainly no redistributionist economic policy. IMHO, I think majority power will end up shackling the Dems with the same coalition fracturing identity crisis that beset the GOP.

If i had to bet, I would lay my chips that libertarianism will predominantly become a left-wing ideology and that left-wing will become more about de-centralization and "spontaneous order" and right-wing will become more about managed preservation of current order. With Baby boomer retirement now upon us, you would think age would become highly correlated with what group someone would belong to into the future. But, then again, I keep thinking how the prospect of transhumanist singularity that offered significant life extension for Baby Boomers would disturb that demographic and philosophic equilibrium.

IOW, Kal

#6294 On Sun, 2008 04 20 12:42 John said,

I would lay my chips that libertarianism will predominantly become a left-wing ideology and that left-wing will become more about de-centralization and "spontaneous order" and right-wing will become more about managed preservation of current order.

you think we're coming full circle back to the origins of classical liberalism in the 19th century.

I could live with that.

Henley responds...

#6296 On Mon, 2008 04 21 04:29 ka1igu1a said,

Henley critiques my post over at The Art of the Possible, and I responded back.

To summarize the debate, Henley continues to project "stickiness" in traditional Dem and Repub coalitions while I Project flux. Henley essentially views marginal income tax policy(a la economic redistribution) as the glue that will sustain both coalitions. I disagree. Henley also views any libertarian re-alignment to the left to be largely insubstantial. I maintain that libertarianism will play a role in future political re-alignment. And in our current political context, where winning political coalitions are largely won at the margins, the western libertarian vote cannot be ignored.

Ha! And I get passed over! :)

#6298 On Mon, 2008 04 21 10:11 John said,

He didn't care to mention my name and I posted this entry in three places! hehehe

Here, at Swords Crossed and at The Forvm...which also got the most attention.

Stickiness

#6300 On Mon, 2008 04 21 13:06 FreedomDemocrats said,

To what degree did the marginal voter for the Democratic Coalition during the 1930s (urban worker) move the party away from its base of agrarians in the South and West?

To what degree did the marginal voter for northern urban Democrats later on in the 1950s and 1960s (African-American voters), move the party even more away from the South?

To what degree has the marginal voter for the Republican Party in the 1950s and 1960s (Southern conservatives) become the base voter for today?