Response to critcisms of Ron Paul in light of recent events (Young endorsement, etc.)

Submitted by Paige_Michael-S... on Sat, 2008-08-30 22:15.

I've read some criticism of Dr. Paul here after visiting this forum for the first time in a while just now. Firstly, I need to address an unjustly harsh and, IMO, flatly incorrect statement from W Lane Startin in the comments section of "WTF Paul? Part Two."

Paul has always been quick to abandon libertarian ideals on social issues to appease the Christian Right. He has a lot more in common with Huckabee than he doesn't. Always has.

Ron Paul has never been anything other than a statist Reagan Republican with a slightly different spin. I don't know what's more shameful, the fact he calls himself a libertarian, or the fact that so many people believe him.

Interesting you link an Idaho Statesman article. The Idaho GOP has been foisting this exact brand of ideological chutzpah on the general public for years.

Paul has maybe presented his positions in language to appease the Christian Right, but he's never really actually abandoned libertarian positions on those issues. He's put up with attacks by the Christian right on many libertarian positions of his (especially drugs) by Christian right GOP opponents in his district, and he's always come out on top. He's been for domestic partnership contract rights for gays (as he stated openly in the video interview with John Stossel, and during the GOP primary I might add), legalizing drugs (which is an expressly anti-Huckabee position), protection of civil liberties, has been very anti-war and anti-interventionism, and holds other libertarian positions that resemble nothing which Mike Huckabee promotes. The only issue where he has pretty much always disagreed with the Libertarian Party platform is abortion, and the only other issue where he's disagreed with perhaps a majority of libertarians is on the issue of Constitutional interpretation of federalism, as he's more inclined to argue that 10th Amendment takes precedence over 14th Amendment in some cases. He moved in the wrong direction on immigration, for sure, but he also expressly moved in the right direction on other issues, like the Death Penalty.

To make a statement like "he has more in commmon with Mike Huckabee than he doesn't" is a huge exaggeration of reality. I would argue that he probably only holds about 20% in common with Mike Huckabee, given that Huckabee is central planner on economic issues.

As for the endorsement of Young, it's disappointing, but understandable. Ron Paul is a politician, and he knows that if substantive steps are going to be made on reversing the growth of the authoritarian state, he's going to have to work with some candidates who maybe aren't all that perfectly aligned with him on the issues. For instance, he's endorsed Roscoe Bartlett of Maryland, who is a pro-Iraq War candidate but has been in line with him on issues of national sovereignty. Young has co-sponsored Ron Paul's Constitutional Amendment to eliminate the Income Tax, which gives Ron access to him to persuade him that he won't have with many other members of the Republican Congressional delegation. Further, if Young wins re-election, then he's going to owe Ron Paul politically. This is a powerful ace in the hole to have. It's easy for us to criticize politicians like Ron Paul for making moves like this when they have been so principled in their stances and actions, but like I said: Ron Paul is a politician, and a smart one at that, and he knows that the game needs to be played if his agenda is going to move forward.

Remember, for the Bartletts and Youngs out there, he's also endorsing the real deals like B.J. Lawson, who is a solid minarchist libertarian 100% aligned with him on the issues and the only Ron Paul-endorsed Congressional candidate who will be speaking at the Rally for the Republic and will also be emceeing a large part of the event. If that's not a signal of what Ron Paul is committed to, I don't know what is.

Furthermore, the Club for Growth isn't exactly the free market group it pretends to be. They're promoting the privatization of Social Security (which is NOT free market economics, but rather corporatist central planning run amuck; the real libertarian position on Social Security is its abolition), and they're promoting managed trade agreements (masquerading as free trade) and draconian tort reform that undermines the enforcement of contracts and private property and Coasian bargaining to resolve disputes. If anything, the Club for Growth is a corporatist organization masquerading as a free market organization.

RE: Paul

#6609 On Mon, 2008 09 01 06:01 ka1igu1a said,

I'm not as harsh on Paul as Lane is but the fact remains there has always been a "good" Paul and a "bad" Paul from a libertarian perspective. The "good" Paul was on display in the GOP debates but the "bad" Paul reared it's head in the subsequent campaign advertising. Paul didn't raise that 35 million dollars by emphasizing Christian Right issues but his State campaigns nevertheless largely pandered exclusively to that constituency. Paul didn't run a single anti-war ad, instead he ran pro-life ads, despicable anti-immigration ads, and if you didn't know better, ads actually implying support of the war. I agree with Mickey Edwards that the Christian Right is largely responsible for killing the libertarian movement in the GOP. Watching Paul play both sides is exhibit A. Of course, Paul would perhaps counter that wrapping oneself up in the garb of the Christian Right is the only way a libertarian can get elected in the GOP. He may well be right about that. That's precisely why I'm not a republican.

And just to be blunt, the fact that Don Young is co-sponsoring Paul's Amendment is a complete joke. The fattest pig in the public trough claiming he is for the elimination of the income tax? Give me a freakin break. It's more like a convenient cover for the fat pig to get even fatter. The fact is Paul aligning himself with the likes of Don Young completely discredits Paul and his amendment. That's not good politics unless all you really care about is raising money and compiling mailing lists proclaiming how "big spending liberals" continue to thwart the "liberty amendment." I didn't just fall off the turnip truck, and my nose is not stuck up anyone's ass. I call 'em as I see it.

Come on....

#6620 On Mon, 2008 09 01 16:33 Paige_Michael-S... said,

The endorsement doesn't "completely" discredit Paul. It's a move I certainly disagree with, but there could be (and likely are) political calculations behind it that will be positive for the Liberty movement. (I.E. Paul owns his ass for saving it with his endorsement, so Young is at his mercy.) I doubt with someone as smart as Tom Lizardo running his operation that Paul would do something as apparently politically stupid as endorse Don Young without there being something else coming the other way.

Let me rephrase...

#6627 On Tue, 2008 09 02 05:16 ka1igu1a said,

discredits the Campaign for Liberty. There is definitely some very positive aspects about Paul from a libertarian perspective but his alliances with distinctly un-libertarian elements within the GOP detracts from him serving as an ideal ambassador of libertarianism. To the extent he turns people on to the likes of Mises, Hayek and Rothbard, I say bravo. To the extent he goes on theocrat talk shows and expresses agreement with the right of the state to impose capital punishment for abortion, or signs pledges from xenophobic organizations such as NumbersUSA, which advocates police state tactics to enforce massive deportation of illegal immigrants, or aligns himself with pork barrel spenders extraordinaire, he's not doing the movement any favors. The most disappointing aspect of the Young endorsement is not Young's pork barrel corruption, but the fact that Young is pro war. There was a 3rd candidate in that primary, Gabrielle LeDoux, who was a lot closer to being a "Ron Paul Republican" than the other two stiffs. That's who he should have endorsed. However, the fact is that Paul won't endorse against any republican incumbent; that's been made clear.

I'm not saying Paul is right about everything.

#6645 On Wed, 2008 09 03 22:44 Paige_Michael-S... said,

Firstly, I disagree with you about his stance on capital punishment. As I understand it, he is opposed to capital punishment but takes a "States' Rights" position on it. (He's said he has changed his position on capital punishment due to the emergence of DNA evidence.) He has openly called for overturning it at the Federal level. I know you're not a big fan of "States' Rights," and neither am I, but it's defensible, at least.

You are right to say that he's wrong on immigration.

Interestingly enough, the two issues you cited where he detracts from the libertarian movement involves the only two issues- abortion and immigration- where Paul disagrees with the Libertarian Party platform. If those are the only two problems about him as an ambassador for libertarianism, then that's not so shabby.

Regarding the Young endorsement and his pro-Iraq War stance, he's not the only candidate Paul has endorsed who is pro-war. Roscoe Bartlett from Maryland is another prominent pro-war candidate he's endorsed. I don't like this, but he's been with Paul on a number of other issues. He's a co-sponsor of Paul's Liberty Amendment (abolishing the 16th Amendment), and he's with him on national sovereignty issues. Paul knows he's going to have to work with some people who may not agree with him on every important issue.

I've talked to a contact of mine who works in Congressman Paul's office, who is going to inquire to Tom Lizardo about his endorsement of Young. I suspect that this is a political calculation on Paul's part. Young probably reached out to him, said he needed help, and Paul offered to help in return for basically owning his ass legislatively. If that's the case, then I say well done Ron Paul.